[Vytas]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:35:02 am #10369 yul, how good was the season finale?

[Katie]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:35:15 am #10370 In an all-star season with numerous twists and 24 players, I think Yul had the right strategy. However, and unfortunately for Yul, Cassandra was controlling the game in a way I didn't think would be possible in a season with so many big threats. I thought for sure once someone became the next big target, they'd be done. I think both of you played a fantastic game.

[Andrea]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:35:41 am #10371

Andrea, you're someone who has for two seasons now gone home for being the most likable or threatening person remaining in the game. Does that make you respect someone who can get to the end with a target on their back more? OR does it make you respect players who were never in danger more?

lol I can hear half the people hear laughing at the idea that I'm the most likeable. But thank you.

And yeah, generally I have more respect for players who were in danger and worked around it. Really, I have a lot of respect for players who have a clear view of how to manage an endgame, because I feel like that's where I really struggle. Once it gets down to 8 or 7 or so, I start to get sloppy because I get attached to my F3s and I don't really consider making moves to get rid of them. I just want to go to the end with my F3s. Which would be great, if that's what my F3s ever wanted

So what I've really respected in honestly all of their answers is getting insight into what they were thinking at that stage of the game.

I think I'm more drawn to people who played more flashy games generally because it's easier for me to see what they did better than me. They're not IDENTICAL, but you can compare me and Cass's games pretty easily and see where we were similar and then see where she surpassed me and what she did right that I did wrong. You can't compare my game as easily to Yul's or Sarah's. That doesn't mean I don't respect them, it just means that it takes a little more work for me to see them clearly. I kind of have to switch mindsets.

[Cassandra]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:36:20 am #10372

Cass brings up a portion of the game that OFTEN goes unfairly unnoticed when it comes to FTC. Make the case that you played a strong premerge game.

I participated in most of the challenges that led to us winning immunity. That shouldn't be viewed as something that was just blessed upon me.

Even so, we all had to go to tribal council several times before the merge because of the twist. In none of them was I voted out, and after the first round I received no votes against me. I was online sending messages to every single person, every single round, creating an internalized network of who knew what information, and filling people in on what I knew when I found it necessary. I didn't make any flashy plays pre-merge, but that's because I knew that in a game starting with 24 people I would have to gradually escalate the intensity of my game.

I was at one point allies with everyone I met pre-merge, and I made great pains that those webs wouldn't conflict. Sarah came into Tianguan 2.0 telling everyone that Ozzy, Penner, and I needed to go. I came in later and convinced every single one of them--even Ashley, her closest ally there--otherwise. I fought for all three of me, Penner, and Ozzy to stay, rather than just myself, and I was rewarded for it by my alliance with Brenda.

Yul is right that I didn't find the idol, Brenda gave it to me. But I worked my ass off to convince people I didn't have it, and no one suspected I did by the time I played it. And it's not like Brenda used random.org. She gave it to me because I was honest with her when she was fucking up, and someone with whom she'd collaborated since the first round we met. She knew Mia, Vytas, and Andrea all before me. She was in a foursome with them before me. She chose me because I usurped them as her top ally.

[Yul]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:36:27 am #10373

yul, how good was the season finale?

It was long. Way long.

I enjoyed it. Wasn't world-ending (as finales usually are not), but as a build-up for the last season I'd say it absolutely did it's job. No one was sidelined, everyone had a moment.

[Rudy]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:36:47 am #10374

Yul, in a lot of ways you've been a second wheel to an alliance, and some would even say a goat. What would you say to the criticism that you have not had a target on your back, and thus an easy ride to the finals by being a background player?

I think you sound like you are speaking from the perspective of someone who was not knee-deep in this game. It reminds me of when Liliana tried to explain all of our games and she simply did not have the information to do so accurately. You are doing the same thing. Talking like you know what happened, but honestly I don't think you did.

GET HIM, YUL!

[Sarah]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:37:06 am #10375

This is a free for all by the way, i was kind of hoping for a finalist to take charge and ask the other finalists questions/debate.

Then I will. Fine. Yul, please explain to me why you deserve to win over Cass. I want you to fight me on the notion that you managed to get here on your own and not having hid behind Rudy and Ozzy. Explain to me how YOU made the moves to get here and weren't just part of that movement. I've said it NUMEROUS times, I felt like you never tried to discuss moves with me.

You even said to me at one point that's stuck with me throughout this whole game... You know what I'm going to say.

You said to me, and this is as close to direct as I can without digging through chat history... "I feel like final 8 might be too soon to make a big move."

Really?

First off, that final eight comment was a lie I specifically told you so we could stop talking. Obviously I don't agree with it. I made moves BEFORE the final eight in this game, and AFTER.

Here's my 'fight' on the notion I didn't hide behind Rudy or Ozzy. I had plenty of relationships outside of both of them. In the end I needed them, because I was able to use those relationships to be included (and participate) in Rudy's vote-out, and then Rory came through for me at the very end. I don't believe I hid behind anyone but I damn sure made relationships and I damn sure used them.

One of my big regrets is neglecting you in this game, as a player and as a potential friend. I do apologize for that.

So you lied and gave me potentially damning information? That's very smart. I wouldn't say that to someone knowing how bad it looks. But maybe that's just me.

And thank you. That's sweet.

[Cassandra]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:40:53 am #10376

Cassandra, you have been Immune for the past four councils in a row. I'm going to mention Sophie when I say that... Immunity isn't everything, and in fact we have seen players penalized for being immune... thus not having to really play the game. What would you say to that criticism?

I've outlined this several times already. I didn't need to be immune at F7, at F6, or at F5. I'll take this opportunity to segue over to Andrea's post.

I will admit that I needed that F4 immunity, yes. Voting Sarah out at F5 was something I was certainly considering, but I couldn't take the risk that Ozzy would beat me at F4. It was more a matter of being forced to sit next to him at FTC than it was fear that he would vote me out, but either way I probably needed that immunity after you left. If it seems like I've been denying that, it's because I've been trying to explain that I had backup options (tenuous as they were). There's no doubt that winning that immunity was my saving grace.

That said, I positioned myself with the knowledge that I would have to win it, and gave myself the absolute best odds that I could win it. I did win it, and I don't think that saving myself through my own challenge skills should be looked at as a negative.

cass- since the final 20 you were immune every single round, until the merge. was there ever a time you think you couldve been voted out, had you lost?

Yup, that would be when I was first swapped into Tianguan 3.0. I hadn't met three of the five other players, and I was allied with the two that I did know (in two different alliances). So even then, I was positioned as best as I possibly could be. I told Katie in her thread how I sabotaged Wigles' game somewhat, while making a good impression on Andrea/Vytas/Mia. I was being considered to be voted out because of suspicions that I had an idol, but I participated in each of the challenges that led us to immunity and by the last round of that it was clear that Wigles would have gone home over me.

I will confirm that AS FAR AS I KNOW--I know you and Brenda could have swung like a 3-2-2--you were going if we'd lost the first Tianguan immunity. sorry bb.

Also cool. I'm not judging you for needing that F4 immunity! I was only judging you for saying you didn't need it

Right, but even so I was aware of that because Brenda was feeding me information. And like you said, I participated in and kicked ass in that first immunity challenge.

I needed that F4 immunity! If I sounded confrontational there it's because people have been pushing the narrative that I needed "so many immunities" to get to the end. I just needed that one (and that Tianguan one).

[Yul]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:42:09 am #10377

Make the case that you played a strong premerge game.

Immediately in this game I formed a quick alliance based on strength-in-numbers with Courtney, you, Katie, Rory and Wigles. After we got through that first super-quick double-vote twist, we were able to squeeze those numbers down. I had you/Katie/Courtney and I had Catalie/Katie. I chose to go with you and Courtney because I felt like that were the long-term game was heading, but I kept my relationship with Katie in tact. Also, Catalie scared me.

This is where I had to really work. The switches. You and I were alone in Becky 2.0, plus we had Rory who we had just voted out. I was able to create relationships with Vytas, Andrea, and Candice which would help me out later. We voted out Tammy and Sophie and even though I fully expected to be on the bottom side of things, I was never in real danger.

In 3.0, the relationship I made with Candice (and re-made with Rory) helped us get the voted against Penner. But Candice got a bit flip-flopped on us and we were able to get Ozzy to flip. I can't take credit for this one; though I do believe my prior conversations with Ozzy helped.

I won't beat a dead horse too much, but I think pre-merge I did the best of the three of us. It was the twistiest pre-merge I've ever been in, and I did not end up with good dice rolls on the switches, but I still pushed through, survived, and was in the majority every time.

[Yul]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:43:08 am #10378

This is a free for all by the way, i was kind of hoping for a finalist to take charge and ask the other finalists questions/debate.

Then I will. Fine. Yul, please explain to me why you deserve to win over Cass. I want you to fight me on the notion that you managed to get here on your own and not having hid behind Rudy and Ozzy. Explain to me how YOU made the moves to get here and weren't just part of that movement. I've said it NUMEROUS times, I felt like you never tried to discuss moves with me.

You even said to me at one point that's stuck with me throughout this whole game... You know what I'm going to say.

You said to me, and this is as close to direct as I can without digging through chat history... "I feel like final 8 might be too soon to make a big move."

Really?

First off, that final eight comment was a lie I specifically told you so we could stop talking. Obviously I don't agree with it. I made moves BEFORE the final eight in this game, and AFTER.

Here's my 'fight' on the notion I didn't hide behind Rudy or Ozzy. I had plenty of relationships outside of both of them. In the end I needed them, because I was able to use those relationships to be included (and participate) in Rudy's vote-out, and then Rory came through for me at the very end. I don't believe I hid behind anyone but I damn sure made relationships and I damn sure used them.

One of my big regrets is neglecting you in this game, as a player and as a potential friend. I do apologize for that.

So you lied and gave me potentially damning information? That's very smart. I wouldn't say that to someone knowing how bad it looks. But maybe that's just me.

And thank you. That's sweet.

I lied knowing that everyone else would understand that I lied, and only someone who is super desperate would use that as legitimate information.

[Cassandra]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:43:46 am #10379

This is a free for all by the way, i was kind of hoping for a finalist to take charge and ask the other finalists questions/debate.

Then I will. Fine. Yul, please explain to me why you deserve to win over Cass. I want you to fight me on the notion that you managed to get here on your own and not having hid behind Rudy and Ozzy. Explain to me how YOU made the moves to get here and weren't just part of that movement. I've said it NUMEROUS times, I felt like you never tried to discuss moves with me.

You even said to me at one point that's stuck with me throughout this whole game... You know what I'm going to say.

You said to me, and this is as close to direct as I can without digging through chat history... "I feel like final 8 might be too soon to make a big move."

Really?

First off, that final eight comment was a lie I specifically told you so we could stop talking. Obviously I don't agree with it. I made moves BEFORE the final eight in this game, and AFTER.

Here's my 'fight' on the notion I didn't hide behind Rudy or Ozzy. I had plenty of relationships outside of both of them. In the end I needed them, because I was able to use those relationships to be included (and participate) in Rudy's vote-out, and then Rory came through for me at the very end. I don't believe I hid behind anyone but I damn sure made relationships and I damn sure used them.

One of my big regrets is neglecting you in this game, as a player and as a potential friend. I do apologize for that.

So you lied and gave me potentially damning information? That's very smart. I wouldn't say that to someone knowing how bad it looks. But maybe that's just me.

And thank you. That's sweet.

Despite the sass, Sarah raises a good point that this is a key difference in how I handled players on the outs versus how Yul did. Yul lied to Sarah so she would leave him alone. I hinted at making a move with her next round (a move that was going to be made regardless) so that I could work with her down the line.

[Jeff Probst]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:46:31 am #10380 Yul, you're more vocal tonight than you have been collectively at every council, was that by design? Did you hide too far in the shadows?

[Yul]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:47:05 am #10381 Cassandra is right in that she put in more effort with Sarah then I did. I did make effort with other people who were 'on the outs', though, as I assume she did as well. The other one was probably Mia, and again, like Sarah I just felt like I was wasting my time. They both never really spoke to me like they wanted to talk to me, where-as other people it would just easier to flow conversation with.

[Vytas]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:47:06 am #10382

This is where I had to really work. The switches. You and I were alone in Becky 2.0, plus we had Rory who we had just voted out. I was able to create relationships with Vytas, Andrea, and Candice which would help me out later. We voted out Tammy and Sophie and even though I fully expected to be on the bottom side of things, I was never in real danger.

but you were gonna let rory take the fall because you didn't want to scramble...

[Yul]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:48:03 am #10383

This is where I had to really work. The switches. You and I were alone in Becky 2.0, plus we had Rory who we had just voted out. I was able to create relationships with Vytas, Andrea, and Candice which would help me out later. We voted out Tammy and Sophie and even though I fully expected to be on the bottom side of things, I was never in real danger.

but you were gonna let rory take the fall because you didn't want to scramble...

I was definitely in a defensive as-long-as-ain't-me mode. I'm not claiming I made the Tammy vote happen, nor am I claiming I saved Rory single-handidly. But I did use them both for my advantage.

[Cassandra]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:48:23 am #10384

Make the case that you played a strong premerge game.

Immediately in this game I formed a quick alliance based on strength-in-numbers with Courtney, you, Katie, Rory and Wigles. After we got through that first super-quick double-vote twist, we were able to squeeze those numbers down. I had you/Katie/Courtney and I had Catalie/Katie. I chose to go with you and Courtney because I felt like that were the long-term game was heading, but I kept my relationship with Katie in tact. Also, Catalie scared me.

This is where I had to really work. The switches. You and I were alone in Becky 2.0, plus we had Rory who we had just voted out. I was able to create relationships with Vytas, Andrea, and Candice which would help me out later. We voted out Tammy and Sophie and even though I fully expected to be on the bottom side of things, I was never in real danger.

In 3.0, the relationship I made with Candice (and re-made with Rory) helped us get the voted against Penner. But Candice got a bit flip-flopped on us and we were able to get Ozzy to flip. I can't take credit for this one; though I do believe my prior conversations with Ozzy helped.

I won't beat a dead horse too much, but I think pre-merge I did the best of the three of us. It was the twistiest pre-merge I've ever been in, and I did not end up with good dice rolls on the switches, but I still pushed through, survived, and was in the majority every time.

How would you explain how you entered the merge? I was on a tribe with three people I didn't know, who were all opposed to someone I did know, and I entered the merge being the only one allied with every single person on my tribe. Plus I had Ozzy, plus I was on relatively good terms with Sarah, Lil, and Rory. Assuming you were exposed to as many different people as I was, why did your name continue to be thrown out through the first few rounds of the merge, more so than Rudy's or Ozzy's? Losing immunity challenges is part of it, but it only accounts for so much.

[Yul]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:48:48 am #10386

Yul, you're more vocal tonight than you have been collectively at every council, was that by design? Did you hide too far in the shadows?

Dude, just shut the fuck up.

I say that with love.

[Jeff Probst]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:49:18 am #10387 Cassandra, was there ever a point in the game when you did not have any influence on the vote?

[Sarah]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:49:35 am #10388 I played a strong pre-merge game because I managed to do what only 7 other people did... Not get voted out during it. That's the facts. I didn't get voted out. Mia and Lil were voted out Night 2. I wasn't. I avoided the next few revenge tribals. I managed to avoid getting voted out or vulnerable due to rule breaks at the last pre-merge TC. So... That's the truth.

[Cassandra]

- Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:49:56 am #10389

Cassandra, was there ever a point in the game when you did not have any influence on the vote?

No.